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Question for Fog / Haze-Juice Chemists...

May. 06, 2024
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Question for Fog / Haze-Juice Chemists...

This is a query that delves into the intricate details of fog and haze juice chemicals. This platform is a treasure trove of information and expertise, encompassing professionals such as doctors, chemists, machinists, software, electronics, electrical, and optical engineers, mathematicians, programmers, model-makers, musicians, graphic-designers, illustrators, pilots (both airplane and helicopter), sailors, nuclear submarine technicians, and even excellent pulled-pork cooks. Although the information may not be perfect, it tends to self-correct over time. If anyone can clarify the subtle fluid differences online, it is this community.

If you have insights or links to relevant data, your contributions here would be invaluable.

Cheers for your input!
J.

Indeed, this platform is a hub for specialized technical information across a multitude of disciplines. The sheer diversity and depth of knowledge here are impressive.
If the subtle fluid differences need to be known anywhere on the internet, betting on this community to uncover them seems like a wise wager.

Cheers for the input and links yet again.

For more information, please visit our website.

Smoke Machines FAQs

SMOKE MACHINES
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

Click here for information on how to place an order

Can your smoke machines make coloured smoke / can I use coloured smoke fluid?
No, it is not possible. Use lighting with coloured filters to colour the smoke or our electrically ignited theatrical pyrotechnic coloured smoke cartridges. There is no way to create coloured smoke from a coloured fog fluid in a smoke machine.

Do you sell smoke machines that do not require mains power?
Yes we do – we offer battery powered smoke machines and exterior gas powered smoke guns. You could also use our pyrotechnic smoke pellets and electronically detonated coloured smoke cartridges. The basic 1.1kW version of the Rocket hand portable unit can run from any 1.5kva power generator without any issues!

Do smoke machines / hazers trigger fire alarms?
Two simple factors dictate this:

- density level

- sensitivity level / type of detectors

If the smoke or haze level is dense enough, both smoke machines and hazers can trigger ionisation / optical, vesda (air sampling), or video smoke detectors/detection systems, depending on their sensitivity level. However, heat or "rate of temperature increase" detectors will NOT be activated. A high-end hazer (for example, Phantom Hazer) when used at a low density level is slightly less likely to set off smoke detection systems than a smoke machine.

If you are uncertain of what type of smoke detector your venue has, consult with the head of maintenance or, as a last resort, notify the fire department and do a test run. You can also manually block smoke detectors by fitting a latex rubber glove over the detector, effectively preventing smoke-laden air from reaching the particle sensors.

If you need to test smoke detectors, blasting the smoke from one of our machines towards the detector will set it off. We also supply specialist units which heat the smoke so it rises up like that from a real fire.

Can I use any brand of smoke fluid in my smoke machine?
Unfortunately, the answer is NO and here's why:

Smoke generators are designed around a specific mixture of chemicals, with specific boiling ranges. Using a smoke fluid that, for example, is based on propylene glycol and water, which has a relatively low boiling range, through a generator set for glycerine / water (with a much higher boiling range) potentially can crack the chemical, forming unpleasant and potentially toxic compounds (acroleins, aldehydes etc). Even changing the amount of water in a mixture can have an effect.

All the major UK manufacturers agree about the potential dangers of mixing and matching smoke chemicals, and stress that so-called 'generic smoke fluids' simply could not be relied upon to produce consistent and safe smoke in every generator. The use of generic fluids or the wrong fluid in the machine regrettably keeps our service and spare parts department busy.

Safe smoke that is non-toxic to breathe is your responsibility!

The use of generic smoke chemical in place of the manufacturer's recommended fluid leaves you wide open to all sorts of legal recourse relating to health & safety, reliability of your machine, and servicing costs. It simply isn't worth the risk.

Do smoke machines make you cough?
No, they should not. If you have experienced coughing, it may be due to the operator using the incorrect fluid or a cheap 'generic' smoke fluid to save money, which we strongly advise against (see the question above). If you have a respiratory condition or are asthmatic, we don't recommend entering an environment containing dense smoke. Occasionally people will experience a psychosomatic reaction to seeing smoke and cough for the sake of it, even though the smoke isn't actually causing this reaction in a physical sense. Contrary to popular belief, our modern oil-based thermally generated smoke/haze systems such as the Phantom are least likely to affect those with a medical condition related to their respiratory system as it does not produce a hygroscopic particle (i.e., does not absorb moisture to make throats and eyes dry out). Contact us for more information.

How important are the quoted smoke output volume rates?
The smoke output rate, usually quoted in cubic feet or cubic meters per minute, are figures quoted by manufacturers of smoke machines to illustrate how much smoke their units can produce. However, the main issue is that no density level of the smoke in the volume is ever stated, which makes these output rates rather useless and very often over-exaggerated. Unlike water or air, smoke can vary in density from very thin to extremely dense. So without mentioning how dense the smoke is inside that given output volume, what does it mean? Even a small smoke machine can produce 20,000 cfm, but the smoke spread out in a 20,000 cubic foot volume would be very thin. The volume figure does not state the density, i.e., how thick or thin the smoke actually is within that volume of space, so technically it would be correct! Whether you'd be too happy with a barely hazy density level if you were carrying out fire training or trying to visualize airflow is another matter. Without at least specifying a visibility level, any smoke output figure is speculative and not necessarily accurate nor consistent with other manufacturers' figures. It is best to compare heat exchanger wattages for a more realistic comparison.

Can smoke be ducted down lengths of hose from your smoke machines?
In most cases yes, this is possible. In-depth answer...

Can I use a smoke machine in the UK or Ireland since the public smoking ban?
The provisions of the Health Act 2006 regarding smoking make the possession of lit tobacco in a smoke-free place an offense. Therefore, the issue of smoke machines does not feature unless the smoke comes from lit tobacco, which is not the case with any of our products!

Are smoke machines toxic?
Not when you use the officially recommended fluid – we wouldn't be selling them if they were! In-depth answer...

Can I add scent/fragrance additives to smoke fluid so that it has an aroma?
We don’t sell aroma additives for fog fluid because a technical report carried out by Brunel University on behalf of the Fire Brigade Union in the UK recommended that any additives added to smoke chemical to either add scent or color the chemical should be removed, as many of these additives were found to be related to known carcinogens. We are often asked about adding an electrical fault or burning smell to fluid, but another issue arises here – how do you know whether there is a real electrical fault or fire in your facility or whether it is the simulated aroma?

Do you sell second-hand units?
Occasionally we do. These are usually ex-hire machines or units that have been discontinued or used for demonstrations. Please visit our clearance page to see the current list of items we have available. This list is updated in real-time, so if it’s not on the list, we don’t have it!

Can I put disinfectant in your smoke machines?
We are happy to provide smoke and aerosol generating equipment for customers to use with our water-based smoke fluids whose active ingredients are recognized to have a bactericidal effect by their nature. Customers can use their own disinfecting chemicals in the units, but in this case, we can offer no warranty as to the safety, efficiency, flammability, etc. of the resulting fog and cannot warranty the equipment or its resulting effect as a consequence. The machine that could be most suitable for this type of application would be the Rocket with refillable canister(s) if using your own chemical or battery-powered Mini Rocket for maximum portability.

Where are your smoke machines manufactured?
To help customers make conscientious decisions when purchasing equipment, here are the locations where the smoke machines and fluids are made:

  • All Pea Soup machines, fluids, and pellets are manufactured in England.
  • As are Le Maitre, Jem, Artem, Concept, most Rosco machines, and Le Maitre pyrotechnics.
  • Look Solutions machines and fluids are made in Germany.
  • Antari machines and fluids are made in Taiwan.
  • The alternative 'Antari-approved' fluids are made in France.
  • DF50 units are made in the United States.
  • Rosco fog fluid is made in Spain and the US.

More specific questions

On this page we aim to answer as many of your smoke machine/fog generator questions as possible. There are a lot of questions, and we add to them often. We've tried to order them logically, but you may wish to do a "Find..." (Shortcut: Ctrl + F) word search with your internet browser to find just what you're looking for. If you have a question that you feel should be on this page, please let us know.

Click on a question below to view the answer.

Smoke machine basics:

  • What's the difference between a smoke machine and a fog machine?
  • What is a smoke machine?
  • How does a smoke machine work?
  • What makes the smoke?
  • How much do smoke machines cost?
  • Are smoke machines dangerous?
  • Are smoke machines a risk to health?

About Pea Soup:

  • Where can I buy a smoke machine?
  • Where can I hire a smoke machine?
  • Do you repair smoke machines?
  • Can I place my order over the internet?
  • Can I place my order without a credit/debit card?
  • I am not in the UK - do you export?

Specific applications:

  • Which smoke machines are suitable for...?

Other Questions:

  • What do people use smoke machines for?
  • Which smoke machine do you recommend?
  • Why should I buy a professional machine instead of a cheaper version?
  • What safety advice is there for smoke machine use?
  • How long does the smoke hang in the air for?
  • How long do smoke machines take to heat up for operation?
  • Can I duct smoke down a length of hose?
  • How do I clean my smoke machine?
  • What is 'dry ice'?
  • What's the difference between dry ice, liquid nitrogen, oil, and water-based smoke machines?
  • How do smoke and fog chillers work?
  • What is a hazer?
  • What is the difference between a smoke machine and a hazer?
  • How much does smoke machine fluid cost?
  • Do I have to use the fluid that the manufacturer makes for my machine?
  • Why is smoke machine fluid so expensive?
  • Where does 'dry ice' get its name?
  • Can I buy smoke fluid that makes coloured smoke?
  • What are "intelligent lights"?
  • Are smoke machines suitable for use in areas of high humidity?

What's the difference between a smoke machine and a fog machine?

The terms 'smoke machine' and 'fog machine' both refer to the same type of unit. 'Fog machine' is the term used more in the United States, and 'smoke machine' is the term mainly used in the United Kingdom and Europe. Technically, the correct terminology is 'fog machine', as the dictionary definition of fog is 'liquid particles suspended in the air' (smoke/fog machines always vaporize liquid), whereas smoke is 'solid particles suspended in the air'. Tradition along with product descriptions over the decades has created this moniker foible.

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What is a smoke machine?

A smoke machine is an electro-mechanical unit that produces clouds of smoke on demand. Smoke machines are used in theatres, nightclubs, film and television studios, theme parks, and other entertainment applications to produce a smoke or fog effect which creates the illusion of fog, steam, smoke from a fire, and many other effects. They are also used to create 'safe smoke' in fire training scenarios, for leak testing of buildings and containers, testing the efficiency of extraction systems, and air flow in wind tunnels. Their size can range from that of a small water bottle to units that require mounting on a truck.

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How does a smoke machine work?

A smoke machine, in its simplest terms, is a heating element that gets very hot, through which special fluid is pumped and vaporized, thereby creating smoke vapor which exits the machine through the nozzle. Electronic circuitry ensures that the heating block in the smoke machine is kept between certain temperatures - too hot and the machine can 'crack' the chemical put through it creating toxic elements (or worse, turns into a flame thrower) - too cold and it generates a wet fog that leaves residue, or shoots out hot liquid.

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What makes the smoke?

The most common type of smoke machine uses a water-based fluid, which is made up mainly of pharmaceutical-grade glycol and water. There may also be other harmless chemicals in the fluid. Other types of smoke machines include dry ice machines that create a low lying heavy fog using dry ice (solid carbon dioxide), liquid nitrogen (which also creates a low lying fog), oil-based smoke machines (similar in principle to water-based machines, but uses an oil rather than a water base - the smoke can withstand much higher temperatures and is much more dense), and hazers (water-based haze generators, mainly used to accentuate lighting rather than for conventional 'smoke' effects).

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How much do smoke machines cost?

Smoke machines range widely in price, but as the Romans used to say, "Talia expensa sic empta" - you get what you pay for! We supply machines by the most reputable and consistent companies who, from our experience, have a proven track record for reliability and excellent service should the need arise.

It is not in our interest to supply smoke machines that are unreliable - so we simply don't!

Smoke machines that are capable of operating continuously at high output do cost more but always have the power available for larger and more varied applications and will never require a re-heat 'dead band'.

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